Fury vs. Wilder: Ghost of Christmas past?

By Wrigley Brogan on October 8, 2018
Fury vs. Wilder: Ghost of Christmas past?
Fans may even love the early Christmas present. What they do not want is a lump of coal.

How did a plodding monster of a heavyweight, who had fought no one and seemed to have limited skills, beat Wladimir Klitschko?

Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder are giving boxing fans an early Christmas present on December 1 at Staples Center in Los Angeles. Jacob Marley has come rattling his chains and Wilder hopes to beat him with every link. Shakespeare best describes the lumbering giant’s attitude:

England that never did not ever shall
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror.

He is the hope of England, a tin-eared entertainer whose musical feats behind a microphone are both embarrassing and laughable. This hotdog would probably do no better on “Dancing with the Stars” although he would no doubt relish the chance to stumble around before a television audience.

Fury is a master of psychological deception. His words intimidate opponents into submission more than his fists. Bumbling puffball punches seem like cannonballs to frightened opponents. Opponents see his size and assume he is breaking rocks because that is what he said he was going to do. He is not capable of putting dimples in sandstone. Wilder is not likely to be intimidated.

One of the great mysteries in heavyweight boxing is how did a plodding monster of a heavyweight, who had fought no one and seemed to have limited skills, beat Wladimir Klitschko for a portion of the heavyweight title? How was this possible with so few punches thrown, and even fewer landing, by both fighters? The fight gave new meaning to my own definition of heavyweights, the Snoorzerweight division. Klitschko averaged only 4.5 punches per round. Many fighters throw more than that on the stool during the rest period. In several rounds he never landed a single punch.

Super big boxers have always fascinated the fans starting in the bare-knuckle days with a giant named Charles Freeman. A reporter described him as seven feet tall and 315 pounds. He had been working in an American circus until British Boxer Ben Caunt, touring the U.S., discovered him and saw the monetary possibilities of turning him into a boxer. They were soon making their own tour back in Britain.

An occasional realist attempted to bring light on the “American Atlas.” The editor of Sportsman’s Magazine said, “Freeman has as little pretensions or inclinations to boxing as any noncombative member of the Peace Society.” Such inclinations toward reason were drowned out by Caunt’s propaganda machine who credited Freeman’s lugubrious, plodding style and bear-hugging tactics as assets.

A bout was arranged with Britain’s Tipton Slasher. The Slasher proved to be even more inept than Freeman. Because of his size, Freeman had no punching power and could only hold and toss the Slasher to the ground. Because of a thick fog and nightfall, the bout was stopped after 70 rounds.

Despite the poor showing by both participants, a rematch was scheduled and again the boxing elite fell for the ruse. The boxers proved even more incompetent than before. The Slasher rushed Freeman in the 37th round and, without being hit, fell to the ground. People thought the fix was in. The Slasher claimed he had simply dazed himself, and then slipped. The referee disqualified the Slasher giving Freeman his first and only win. He was so ridiculed by the press that he returned to the circus.

Another “Big” boy was Primo Carnera. Anyone who knows boxing knows that story, another circus performer turned boxer at the request of the mob. Through a series of fixed fights he rises to the top only to be almost killed by Max Baer, a real boxer who could not be bought. His story is best told by Budd Schulberg’s novel “The Harder they Fall.”

People enjoy comparing the David and Goliath story with boxers of unequal size. Although Deontay Wilder is not small he is still smaller than Tyson Fury and is made to look even smaller by the press. The David and Goliath story is continuously misread to show that a smaller person can overcome great odds to defeat someone stronger. People have let their emotions and religious beliefs outweigh their logical and military reason. Goliath is a big fellow and a fierce fighting machine, a soldier protected by massive amounts of heavy armor, shield, and sword. A propaganda machine as powerful as any hype today backs him. He is also outdated, a lumbering creature slow of movement and dull of wit. He is old technology. David goes into battle with the latest technology, the best and deadliest piece of artillery a soldier can have, a sling. Slingers were some of the most valuable units in the army at the time. It was said that a proficient slinger could hit and kill a man at 200 yards. It is not David who is outgunned; it is Goliath. The big guy failed to live up to the propaganda and David puts him away by maintaining his distance and firing from the outside.

The December 1st match will be amusing, possibly even interesting. Fans may even love the early Christmas present. What they do not want is a lump of coal. Wilder would prefer to make Fury the ghost of Christmas past.

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Max Baer vs Primo Carnera



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  1. don from prov 06:42am, 10/12/2018

    Gee, I wonder who the anonymous “Your Name” with his comment—
    “oh my”!  which was likely meant to cause trouble could possibly be?
    Might that be the same person trying to blatantly play both sides
    of two different issues in one thread while hoping to start shite?
    But instead, some interesting back and forth.  Too bad.

    Anyway, both Pootie Tang and thrashem: I enjoyed your posts and
    the quick bit of interesting friction and discussion they generated.
    Good stuff!

  2. Your Name 04:45pm, 10/11/2018

    oh my!

  3. don from prov 10:04am, 10/11/2018

    though, pitiful as the fight was, he still might have done more than Klit

  4. don from prov 10:03am, 10/11/2018

    btw you were right about this too—

    180 punches thrown in 12 rounds is a total embarrassment and those aren’t the ones that landed. It was a non-fight with some big lumbering ox waltzing around the ring trying to avoid contact

    over and out from the program

  5. don from prov 09:37am, 10/11/2018

    thrashem—The fuck you talking about?  The man brought up a boxing note that interested me and at least one other person.  This is a boxing site, right?
    Get on the program?  Okay.  I don’t see how Fury can believe those two warm-up fights prepared him to contend again.  I imagine that you are correct about what the outcome will be for him.  That = the program.

  6. Kid Blast 04:36pm, 10/10/2018

    thrashem has the beat

  7. thrashem 04:25pm, 10/10/2018

    Don’t know why you want to talk about about someone who got wasted along the boxing trail. The gutters are full of them. Coc-a-dope Fury is next! Get back to the program!

  8. don from prov 09:15am, 10/10/2018

    Read the article—

    Wish Lotieerzo would have speculated at the end, but very good stuff.

  9. don from prov 04:19am, 10/10/2018

    Appreciate the information about the article, Pootie Tang.

  10. Pootie Tang 07:58pm, 10/09/2018

    Don From Prov… Go to Philly Boxing History and read “The Best Fighter That I Ever Saw In The Gym” by Frank Lotierzo. Lotierzo tells how Parker roughed up not only Qawi, but Michael Spinks and Thomas Hearns in sparring sessions. BoxRec: also mentions Parker’s sparring sessions with Hearns, Qawi and Spinks. I have seen a few articles on Parker besting Hearns when Hearns visited Philadelphia. The first time that I ever saw Parker fight was against the much taller middleweight Dwight Davison in a nationally televised bout in August of 1980. At the time, Parker was 17-0 with 14 knockouts and was a hot prospect. From then on Parker seemed to lose every meaningful fight he had. The losses to Hamsho, Sycpion, the one round demolition by John Mugabi, etc. Check out Parker vs. Alex Ramos if you ever get a chance, a helluva fight and yet another tough loss for Parker.

  11. Kid Blast 06:03pm, 10/09/2018

    Anything about Philly fighters always grabs my attention.

    Curtiss Parker was considered one of the toughest guys to fight in the gyms. No matter who the opponent, Problem was he could not translate that to the real deal. Parker’s level of opposition was off the charts. Incredible. As for sparring with Braxton, I never heard about that and kind of doubt that it happened. Parker fought during those glory days of “The Beats Mugabi, Hard Rock Green, Hamsho, and on and on. Always on TV.

    But the toughest sparring partner of all was a Philly heavyweight named Roy “Tiger” Williams who terrified anyone who he fought. His real fight with Shavers is an al-time classic. Even Ali was afraid of him during their interactions in Zaire. Iron chin and slick boxing technique—and at 6’5”. Arguably, he was ONE the greatest gym fighter of all time (along with Parker) and fans on this thread should watch him on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RGEUQa9BVs

  12. don from prov 07:48am, 10/09/2018

    Pootie Tang—That was very interesting about Parker/Qawi and their gym wars.  I didn’t know of it.  Each of them a sawed-off shotgun fighter.  Must have been worthwhile to be in a gym when they were going at it.  But your other point, bringing about the all cap WHAT I WANT TO SEE comment puzzles me a bit.  I don’t see any raging arguments about oil tanker heavyweights vs. those “in the day” taking place in these threads.  In fact, I haven’t seen such for a few years at least, and most of those were scattered brush fires, not raging infernos.  You would seem to be a little late to the party to appear so worked up about the issue; plus, I don’t think any of the “historians” or “experts” who espoused views counter to your own even write on here any longer.  Further, I don’t believe anyone is saying that there are great 220 lb. heavyweights running around at the moment.  One, however, might point out that the same giant, Willard, who seemed unaffected by Johnson’s punches had somewhat the opposite reaction to the punches of 187lb. Dempsey.  But that was a long time ago.  Much less long ago Qawi and Parker seem to have been in gym wars that interest me.  Again, thanks for bringing the fact up.  Do you have any more info on those wars?
    Would love to read about them.
    Good post.

  13. thrashem 06:41am, 10/09/2018

    I watched a bantamweight fight yesterday and each fighter threw 1100 punches in 10 rounds.
    Holyfield/Bowe were fights not snooze fests like any Fury’s bouts. I said it before, “You can’t win a fight from inactivity as in the match with Klitch.” 180 punches thrown in 12 rounds is a total embarrassment and those aren’t the ones that landed. It was a non-fight with some big lumbering ox waltzing around the ring trying to avoid contact and Fury wins. Give me a break!
    AJ won fare and square!

  14. Pootie Tang 06:14am, 10/09/2018

    Another thing that boxing “historians” CONVENIENTLY leave out when discussing another giant of the past, Jess Willard, was that Willard was only a few years older than Jack Johnson when he bested Johnson under the broiling sun in Havana, Cuba. Willard was 33 years old to Johnson’s 37. Hollyweird fairy tale movies such as, “The Great White Hope,” make it seem as though Johnson was one step from a becoming an AARP member and that Willard was a man in the prime of life.  Some of these “historians” claim that the Galveston Giant threw the fight, never mind that he waited until the 25th round under a scorching Cuban sun before he “chose” to lie down,  or the fact that the giant Willard seemed little affected by Johnson’s blows throughout the long fight. These same “historians” who will always claim how poor old Johnson was inactive, overweight and out of shape,  and an ancient 37 years old when he lost to a 33 year old Willard, will never bring up the fact that an inactive, overweight and out of shape,  Willard was also 37 at the time he was beaten to a pulp by a just turned 24 year old Jack Dempsey.

  15. Casanovita de Ahome 08:36pm, 10/08/2018

    James Toney would literally torture and then KO both Baer and Carnera at a time of his choosing. Which reminds of the time that Toney destroyed Holyfield in the fight that as far as boxing “historians” are concerned never happened.

  16. Kid Blast 05:11pm, 10/08/2018

    Wilder will spark Fury with one of his windmill shots. People talk about the Cunningham knockdown, buy Fury got PO almost killed Cunningham when he knocked him cold.

    As for Fury being a lumbering giant, peuleeeeeeze. The guy is 6’9”, fights in a relaxed style, knows how to keep separation, enjoys what he does, is superbly coordinated, and is very savvy inside the ring. A one-in-a million. Unfortunately for him, he has badly damaged his body in a way that two warm-up fights cannot fix. Also, he will be going against another one-in-a million type in Wilder who has the power in either hand to knock out anyone in the world.

    It’s a fun match-up that will give Fury enough money with which to retire to Monaco and snort all the powder he wants. Concurrently, Wilder will simply move up and finally get some good money to put away before his monster bout with AJ.

    As for Max Baer, he was one of the most dangerous punchers in boxing history with a right hand that rendered two opponents dead and God knows how many damaged. No windmill. Just lot’s of power and even more charisma.

    All, of course, IMHO. And thanks for the provocative read. Keep ‘em coming.

  17. Pootie Tang 04:41pm, 10/08/2018

    Former heavyweight champion, Tim Witherspoon, once said he was stunned by 5’8” middleweight, Curtis Parker during sparring session. Parker was known as a vicious “gym fighter.” It was said that Dwight Qawi and Parker had some first class Philly wars back in the day, so much so, that they stopped them from sparring each other. Parker was a decent fighter, but he must have left his best fight in those Philly gyms. Fury has been rocked by light heavyweights while sparring. SHIT HAPPENS. ANYONE gets hit right, they go down and sometimes out. WHAT I WANT TO SEE IS ALL THESE GREAT 6-6’2” 210lb “heavyweights” that all the “experts” keep saying exist. I think rooting against the “big man” is a classic little sign of a little feller’s insecurity complex. haha. As an average size feller more or less, at least in height, even I get annoyed with these little ankle biters always talking about how size means nothing and that big guys are too awkward, slow, blah, blah, blah…...

  18. don from prov 04:19pm, 10/08/2018

    Baer was even a proponent of the WilderWindmill style—


    and carried the big right hand too. 

    P.S. A cruiser not known as a puncher did nearly knock Fury out.
    (The operative word there being “nearly.”)

  19. Pootie Tang 04:00pm, 10/08/2018

    Carnera did remarkably well when you consider the former barefooted street urchin probably never set foot in a boxing ring before he came to America, much less had an amateur career or any type of boxing training under his belt. His “trainers” didn’t care what kind of shape Carnera was in or how well he was prepared to enter the ring against men like Joe Louis. To his credit, Carnera survived to the 11th round against Baer on a pretty bad ankle that was hurt in the first round. This no doubt explains why Da Preem visited the canvas so many times against Baer. Pretty damn hard to lug 265lbs around on a bum wheel against a hard puncher like Baer and fight for 10 rounds. One question here. IF the ideal “heavyweight” is supposed to be around 6’1” to 6’2” and weigh around 190-210lbs, then WHY the hell do we have a cruiserweight division in boxing? No reason why these “perfect sized heavyweights” fighting as cruiserweights can’t knock out these big bums like Fury and become the heavyweight champion right now in the year 2018. Certainly being the heavyweight champ beats languishing in one of boxing’s most ignored weight divisions. Anyone that thinks Fury is a bum could easily prove it by sparring a few rounds with him.

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