Pacquiao vs. Mayweather—Last Chance for a Classic

By Mike Silver on September 25, 2013
Pacquiao vs. Mayweather—Last Chance for a Classic
Like an aging Ali, 36-year-old Floyd Mayweather knows what he must do to steal rounds.

Other than a bout against Pacquiao, no other fight on the horizon involving Floyd “Money” Mayweather is worth our pay-per-view dollars…

Okay, let’s cut to the chase; another overhyped pay-per-view boxing match failed to live up to all the pre-fight blather. If Floyd Mayweather Jr. proved anything during his most recent glorified sparring match it is that he is still very adept at choosing the right opponent as he enters the downside of his commendable boxing career. The Moneyman’s keen boxing eye recognized in Saul “Canelo” Alvarez a strong but limited fighter who lacked the ring savvy and speed to match his own. Canelo said after the fight, “I just couldn’t catch him.” But superior speed does not automatically guarantee a victory. The reason he could not catch Floyd is because he lacked the tools and experience to do so. Mayweather’s prediction before the fight was a foregone conclusion. As he told the press—“easy money…easy fight.”

Many people are praising Floyd’s “masterful” performance against Alvarez. But what is so “masterful” about an old pro handing a boxing lesson to a crude mechanical club fighter who 50 years ago would have been lucky to secure an eight-round semi-final at the old Madison Square Garden? Most of today’s fans have not been exposed to the type of sophisticated boxing technique that was common to great fighters back then. A fighter like Canelo Alvarez, at this stage of his development, would not have even been considered a suitable opponent for a prime Emile Griffith, Jose Napoles or Luis Rodriguez—all great welterweights of the 1960s, any one of whom would have handled Alvarez with greater ease and dominance than Floyd. (Best not to even think what a prime Sugar Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong would have done to the young Mexican—or to Mayweather for that matter).

I knew right away the type of fight Floyd was going to conduct when I saw him mouth the words “did I win the round?” to his father and trainer, Floyd Sr., upon returning to his corner after the first round. Like an aging Ali, 36-year-old Floyd Jr. knows what he must do to steal rounds and impress the judges (providing they are competent, unlike that fool who voted a draw Saturday night). He will do just enough to win—no more, no less.  That was the game plan.

Floyd Mayweather Jr. is a brilliant and colorful showman and a tremendous asset to the sport, but what is most important to him is getting out of this brutal business with his intellect intact and millions of dollars in the bank. He already has his millions. Floyd’s elusive safety-first boxing style and Showtime contract that allows him to choose his opponent (and even his opponent’s weight) will most likely guarantee he will not become one of boxing’s walking wounded. But Floyd’s self-proclaimed assertion that he is the greatest fighter of all time is not bolstered by the fact that during his prime—for whatever reason—he avoided a career defining fight against Manny Pacquiao, the one fighter out of a very limited field of pretenders who stood a good chance to defeat him.

But now, with both of these superb athletes slightly past their primes, and Manny coming off a shocking KO loss to Marquez, is this still a viable fight? Of course we will get a better handle on Pacquiao’s mental and physical condition when he fights Rios in November. But unless Pacquiao has completely fallen apart—which I doubt—he will either outpoint or stop Rios with about as much difficulty as Mayweather had with Canelo. That result would set up interest once again in the fight that should have been made four years ago and, in my opinion, is still worth staging provided it happens before the summer of 2014. I think the Rios fight will show that a somewhat diminished Manny Pacquiao is still quite capable of subjecting a somewhat diminished Floyd Mayweather Jr. to the type of incessant pressure and aggressiveness he has never had to deal with.

Floyd dominated Alvarez in spurts because at 36 years old he can no longer fight at full throttle. Against Pacquiao, Floyd would not be given the chance to rest. Manny is twice the fighter Canelo is and would give Floyd twice the trouble. Would it guarantee a win for Manny? We don’t know. And that’s the point—there are no guarantees in a Floyd vs. Pacman fight—unlike Floyd’s fight with whomever he decides to cherry pick as his next opponent. The short list includes a defense against another limited fighter in Danny Garcia (Philadelphia’s version of Canelo Alvarez) or perhaps a slower over-the-hill Sergio Martinez (who is even older than Floyd). Other than a bout against Pacquiao, no other fight on the horizon involving Floyd “Money” Mayweather is worth our pay-per-view dollars. In fact, I refuse to pay for any future Mayweather fight unless the next opponent staring at him across the ring is Manny Pacquiao. Are you listening Mr. Bob “Top Rank” Arum and Mr. Richard “Golden Boy” Schaefer? Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. In case you forgot, we the paying public do have a say in this matter.

Note: Boxing historian Mike Silver is the author of “The Arc of Boxing: The Rise and Decline of the Sweet Science” (McFarland Publishing 2008).

Follow us on Twitter@boxing_com to continue the discussion

Pacquiao vs Cotto (GP highlights)

Floyd Mayweather vs. Robert Guerrero - Full Length Fight - SHOWTIME Boxing

Canelo Alvarez vs. Austin Trout - Full Length Fight - SHOWTIME

Emile Griffith vs Gaspar Ortega II

Jose Napoles

Luis Manuel Rodriguez KO9 Denny Moyer

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  1. Your Name 04:48pm, 10/05/2013

    if these two do not fight in 2014, they will never fight one another..

  2. Rob 07:49pm, 10/01/2013

    You guys can pontificate until you all deficate about how Manny would have beaten Floyd or will beat Floyd but it is all bullshyt. Manny refused to and still has not taken the comprehensive blood and urine tests only giving lip service through Arum which is why he didn’t get to take his due azz whooping. When is Manny going to fight Canelo, Ortiz, Guerrero or take ANY real risks? The guy fought Marquez 4 times and barely won 1 and you think that 5’6&1/2+ 67in reach no defense puncher is going to beat the 5’8 72in reach defensive specialist and right handed killer? pacquiao will never even hit Floyd! I really hope this fight happens .

  3. jeff 05:02pm, 09/27/2013

    I think manny can still beat Floyd, a year is a long ass time to wait to see them fight. Floyd probably want the world just to get him in the ring with manny. No matter what people say about canalos skills , he was to drained to chase mayweather, i dont know how nobody in boxing cannot see that, git me??  I think Manny has a runners chance and def a punchers chance against FM. Manny best floyd will ever see, if we dont have to wait much longer..

  4. bikermike 12:32pm, 09/27/2013

    Frank in Dallas…....let’s face it…..‘thirties..forties and fifties had a LOT of fighters ...trying to make a living in the ring.

    Top fighters in those eras had over a hundred fights…..sometimes even before they became Champions….
    I hold these fighters in higher regard than most of the strap holders and contenders of today.

    The pool was deep and talented in those days…..not so much today

  5. bikermike 12:27pm, 09/27/2013

    once upon a time…this fight made sense….but pbf wouldn’t go for it…!!

    Now….with Pacquaio aging faster than a nine day old fish….....all of a sudden…pbf wants to step on the corpse and declare victory…
    What next ????  exhume the body of the great benny leonard and beat him too ??

  6. bikermike 12:24pm, 09/27/2013

    hey ‘KID VEGAS’

    That’s twice we’ll have to agree to disagree
    leonard and pbf are not in any GOAT list I had anything to do with…...
    ....they made a lot of money…..but…not GOAT
    ,,I’ll even meet you half way to say that the both of them are pretty good fighters…...but….GOAT….....nodafknchance

  7. Dexter 06:50am, 09/27/2013

    Everyone must know that MANNY PACQUIAO became lethal everytime he is defeated.When he lost to Morales, he demolished all great mexican fighters he fought. Manny Pacquaio is only the one who broke marquez nose in his entire career. If Pacquiao had not been knock out by marquez, worst will happen and i can’t imagine what damage could marquez gets in that fight!

  8. Kanin 11:13pm, 09/26/2013

    Is money man as you said the greatest boxer? That’s what you think. Is money man has an 8 title division record? NO! Only one man has that in boxing history you all know that. How could you be so damm. Once again, the money man will be only be a greatest boxer if ever fought the Pacman. That’s all. And Pacman will retired undefeated again starting from Rios this November. I know we all going to watch him on how he will destroy Rios in 7th, I still believed that Pacman and the money will fight next year.

  9. bikermike 06:41pm, 09/26/2013

    Pacquaio is FAR past his prime….No shame to give in to Father Time…..

    Still ....his life style ...and no real established post ring income…..(his status is because he GIVES HIS PURSES to the folks back home…..but he doesn’t have a solid income after his ring career is done….

    HENCE…a likelyhood of a pac pbf ..match up…like Ali vs Young…

  10. bikermike 06:38pm, 09/26/2013

    a pbf ‘fight’ against the old and aging pacman….would be like betting on the axe…or the log…

  11. bikermike 06:36pm, 09/26/2013

    Thanks for a great article…I always read your articles ..lots of research and knowledge….Keep ‘em coming

  12. bikermike 06:29pm, 09/26/2013

    Eric….I like your posts….but on the matter of Pacquaio ...‘having enough left’ for pbf…..


    He didn’t have enough left for Bradley…nor Marquez…...That man has paid his dues….!!!

    putting him into the meat grinder…at this stage of his ring career…and complicated by his out of ring commitmants…..

    would be like a Holms Tyson….or a Norton Cooney…...get the picture

  13. tuxtucis 09:50am, 09/26/2013

    @Bib: it’s true a great pressure fighter would be the worst match for Mayweather as Castillo showed…But he did beat easily good pressure fighters in Hatton and Cotto, as Mike Schmidt said…About Chavez, he was for sure far better pressure fighters, but he always had troubles with clever boxers: at jr.lightweights he had troubles vs. Laporte and Lockridge who were very distant from Mayweather level…At jr.welterweight he was 2” to loose vs. Taylor for many ways a boxer alike Mayweather (although with very short prime)...About Hagler, I would remember he lost with an over the hill Leonard, who was not elusive as Mayweather was…The best wins of Hagler were against the lightweight Duran (close) and Hearns (no decent chin for any viable hitter at that weight): Antuofermo, Minter, Obelmeijas, Hamsho, Roldan were good foes, but not better of the Mayweather opposition…I would have liked to see a the Jeff Fenech of first meeting with Nelson against the young Mayweather…very interesting fight…

  14. Magnificent Bastard 09:08am, 09/26/2013


  15. Tony 07:37am, 09/26/2013

    —-One place where Floyd is clearly an all-time great, maybe the greatest of modern times, and certainly top five, is the magnitude of his ability to call his own shots.
    —-Ali and Sugar Ray had long-term name recognition and popularity that allowed them to duck some tough competition in favor of some easier paydays. (Even though they tripped over a couple that turned out not to be so easy—as in L. Spinks and P. Pender.)  But they at least had titles—no, wait, they had actual championships—that they had to defend, and that fact made them at least have to pretend to fight somebody with a claim to being a top contender every once in a while.  What’s Floyd champion of?  I’m sure it’s something, but it’s nothing that would stop him from moving a few pounds in whatever direction to fight whoever he wants to fight.  If you wanted to be THE GUY, the Liston to Floyd’s Patterson, the one so clearly the next in line that there would be shame in ducking you, plus disapproval from the sanctioning bodies, jokes though they may be—what weight class do you show up in?
    —-I say all of that to say that while I’m on Mr. Silver’s side in still being willing to see Mayweather-Pacquiao, would love to see Mayweather-GGG, and don’t see anybody else worth my PPV $$$ right now, none of the usual forces seem to be able to align to force Floyd into anything interesting.

  16. Mike Schmidt 12:40am, 09/26/2013

    Tux much appreciated- a fair and level handed response. In terms of the posts on a pressure fighter- yes, but it has to be of course a pressure fighter A) who knows how to cut the ring off B) who knows how to work a hand free inside to bang once he gets Floyd to the ropes - Cotto knew how to do this- just a little too long in the tooth and lacking hand speed, and C) gotta be quick on the feet. If one watches the Hatton fight you can see that Ricky was quick enough on his feet to get inside- just not very elusive from the waist up Mr. Ricky- unfortunately as well he was not allowed to work inside-worked so darn hard to get to the target and then…...break, break, break, break,- I am not saying Ricky was going to win- but you can see what a pressure guy with quick feet does in that fight. What makes Manny dangerous for Floyd aside from his punching power- very very quick on his feet- I still don’t think Manny beats Floyd but hey hey lets have to it even though it is past its due date- Thanks for the post response Mr. Tux- you clearly know your stuff.

  17. peter 11:06pm, 09/25/2013

    Another excellent article, Professor Silver. However, this fight has grown stale. When this fight comes off—and it will—Mayweather wins. He has more riding on it. Manny, however,  seems to be getting old fast. A rugged fighter like Pacquino can only go to the well so many times. If he gets past Rios—as he should—his fight with Mayweather will be his 61st. Pretty Boy Floyd has only 45 fights.

  18. Bib 11:02pm, 09/25/2013

    Floyd is super-lucky that in his day and age and more specifically in his weight class(es) there aren’t any elite relentless all-pressure fighters with great stamina and power, like Frazier, Hagler, Duran, and Chavez Sr were, nor any guys MUCH FASTER than him, with more punching power, like SRL or Roy Jones Jr, both in their primes. He isn’t even close to be the GOAT, because HE HAS NEVER FACED a relentless-pressure fighter who doesn’t accommodate to his style. The closest fight to that, was Floyd-Castillo 1, where Compubox stats don’t lie: Floyd lost in EVERY SINGLE STATISTIC, got hit more in that fight than all his other fights combined, mostly in the body, but he got several clean shots to the face as well that snapped his head backwards, and yet he was given the win by three biased, ignorant and/or sold-out judges. I mean Castillo, a fairly good but not even close to elite fighter, way less powerful and skilled than any of the boxers I mentioned above, and yet he was able to give Floyd hell for most of the fight except the first 4-5 rounds. FLOYD IS JUST LUCKY THERE ARE NO REAL PRESSURE FIGHTERS TODAY. That’s why he is still “undefeated” (any non-Floyd fan knows and ACCEPTS that he lost to Castillo in the 1st fight, so if any pressure fighter today wants sort of a blueprint to defeat Floyd, they must watch rounds 6 to 12 of the Floyd-Castillo 1 fight).

  19. tuxtucis 10:02pm, 09/25/2013

    @Mike Schmidt: Henry Armstrong fought more than 80 years ago…I prefer to imagine that kind of fantasy match between boxers distant no more than 25 years…But’s ok…Armstrong was a boxer who started at feather but peaked a little heavier…He was stronger at light and welter than feather (although he was never a true welterweight…) ... Although his prime was very short, his career was far more impressive than Mayweather’s one…He’s far ahead on pound for pound all-time ranking, so probably favored vs. Mayweather, but in the night he lost to Ambers, maybe he would have lost even vs Mayweather…

  20. Darrell 08:50pm, 09/25/2013

    Ahhh eric, your hate is getting to the truly pathetic stage.

    Pac was never good enough to beat Mayweather….& even less so now.  He could conceivably not get past Rios.  Wouldn’t that have Filipino’s & foreign pactards crying into their basi & beer.

    Just give it up.

  21. Eric 06:21pm, 09/25/2013

    Pacquiao still has enough left for Floyd. Sure he’s not the same fighter but he’s still good enough to take 36 year old Floyd. Speaking of Duran, how many times did the “experts” write Duran off. Davey Moore WAS going to give little butterball Duran a pounding but instead got a pretty brutal beating himself. Duran was STRETCHED by Hearns, that knockout was just as conclusive as Pacman’s going to sleep. Still Duran came back and took on 6’1” Iran Barkley. Who would’ve given Duran a chance in this fight? One would think that Barkley almost as tall as Hearns and probably a light heavweight when entered the ring would have murdered Duran. Not so. I would place my money on Pacquiao if this fight were to happen within the next 6 months or so. But I would look for it to be a boring decision with Floyd wearing his track shoes for this one.

  22. bikermike 05:46pm, 09/25/2013

    pbf vs pac man… like a kid from the sixties…who wanted to nail…...EMMA… shudda happened then…..
    My babysitter nailed me when I was 12…and I’ve sent a prayer to her every day since then

    Now…the kid from the sixties is sixty…..and EMMA is eighty

  23. bikermike 05:20pm, 09/25/2013

    pbf is looking for a money fight….he’s not interested in this…..number one available contender thing….

    big money figth with Pacquiao….but Pacquaio is done….

    Pac man would take a fight like Holmes took a fight with Tyson…for the money

  24. bikermike 05:16pm, 09/25/2013

    if pbf is fighting the best of his time….......he’s a fish in a small pond…eating minnows…...

    I say pbf cherry picks….and he can fight some…but nobody gets into the ring with pbf ...who is a threat

  25. Tex Hassler 05:12pm, 09/25/2013

    Floyd Mayweather may possibly be the best there is today but he is not an all time great like Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong. Alvarez entered the ring seeming with no fight plan, he did not apply pressure, did not go to the body where Mayweather is open, did not use his jab enough, did not cut off the ring. Alvarez should have made it a close fight but he simply did not have the skill to do so. I like Alvarez but he simply was not ready for this level of fighting with Mayweather.

  26. bikermike 05:04pm, 09/25/2013

    If pbf wants to be in the bhof….....he’ll have to fight more often…and against the young lions….

    Instead ......he’ll just have to leonard….settle for being rich

  27. bikermike 04:58pm, 09/25/2013

    Jeff….if I ‘fought ’ pbf….I would have a sniper in the crowd….

    After all….if I could get a fight with pbf…so could a lot of other aged and or non threatening ‘opponents’

    pbf is milking what is…..not facing the best ...

    Look at Tommy Hearns…Roberto Duran…...those guys faced SERIOUS COMPETITION….and these warriors weren’t alone…...

    pbf coasts…and cherry picks…and fights once a year or so…..

    IF PBF wants to be remembered as an ATG…..he better spark up his dance card

  28. jeff 03:31pm, 09/25/2013

    Mayweather and Whitaker fight woud be more like watching dancing with the stars, in the 70’s kick on the disco balls and strobe lights lol

  29. jeff 03:25pm, 09/25/2013

    the money for these performances is BS, Hows this going to effect boxings future ? i cant see it getting much higher, ide fight any boxer in the world for half of what they get no joke ,

  30. jeff 03:01pm, 09/25/2013

    If i fought Floyd i wouldnt chase him around like a chicken in a barnyard, id motion him to the center of the ring make him fight me, that one arm jab and shoulder roll wouldnt work on me, id swamp him with up and down combos hed have to change up to protect himself, his lead foot he likes to lerp way out in front of him, id step pn it once in awhile throw him put of his comfort zone, he leaps sometimes with his jab, a foward leap id time it. GUYS BACK in the day werent afraid to brawl,, floyd would of been history with some of those guys ,  Floyd plays more hide and seek then brawling, thats why its easy money, boxers afraid to make him come to center of the ring, oh well, hes not hard to fig out make him brawl with you,

  31. Mike Schmidt 02:19pm, 09/25/2013

    One last one Tux- what about Henry Armstrong against Floyd- the perpetual puncher fought below, at, and above lightweight, like Floyd. I gotta suggest one thing here- sure as hell Henry Armstong would not, like Canelo, be on the outside trying to figure his guy out, or try to outbox him- he knew how to cut the ring off, he knew how to shoulder and twist an arm to get free inside and kill the body and he knew how to keep a guy pinned- how say you on that one Sir- and again, just asking in friendly comraderie here ( well kinda friendly)- hell I don’t have any definitive answer than the next guy- but I am interested in your thoughts on that one as well

  32. Mike Schmidt 02:06pm, 09/25/2013

    Eric, from Thomas Hauser, “The Myth and The Reality of Floyd Mayweather Jr.: “On July 3, 2009 the Associated Press reported that the Internal Revenue Service had filed tax liens against him (Mayweather) totally $6,170,000 and that he owed another $193,000….There were also persistent rumors denied by Leonard Ellerbe that Floyd had been swindled out of millions of dollars in a financial scam…. History judges fighters by what they did in the ring; not by whether they were in Dancing with The Stars and how much money they made!”  That was then and this is now but wow… Can any of my Pinoy friends share anything on how Manny files tax returns- what is the tax structure in the Congressman Manny’s locale?

  33. Mike Schmidt 01:59pm, 09/25/2013

    I ain’t saying a word about Big Frank Lucas, not a word….hey how come I keep getting that SHAFT tune buzzing around my head.

  34. Clarence George 01:53pm, 09/25/2013

    What a memory you have, Mike Schmidt!  Wasn’t that Frank Lucas?  And the coat was ermine, right?

  35. Mike Schmidt 01:42pm, 09/25/2013

    Boxing related in response Clarence to Silver and Gold which old Burl song could now be put over the load speaker at a WBA or WBC convention as they cart out the Belts—- I ask Sir- when the Bumble came out of the cave did he or did he not seem to have the exact footwork of an older Sonny Liston and did he or did he not have the same fur coat look as those two funky dudes at the first Ali vs Frazier fight- I ask you Sir, as an expert, how say you?

  36. Eric 01:15pm, 09/25/2013

    PacMan might not be the fighter he was but he still has enough in the tank to beat the overhyped, overrated Gayweather. I don’t think Floyd fears Pacquiao as much as he fears losing. Gayweather seems to be a very, very, immature and insecure boy in a man’s body. I mean really, all the PAID *escorts hanging around, the gazillion cars, and all that other bullsheet. This ridiculous payaso will be broke five years after he retires, it is hard to believe he is 36 years old because he has the maturity level of a 16 year old.

  37. Mike Silver 01:14pm, 09/25/2013

    Franklin, I think you are only partially right: Yes, by TODAY’S standards Alvarez is not a crude mechanical club fighter—he is a top contender. But the standards of today are definitely not those of decades past. Throw him back 50 or 60 years ago and he would be considered a crude mechanical club fighter and outboxed quite easily by other more clever club fighters.

  38. tuxtucis 01:12pm, 09/25/2013

    Mayweather-Whitaker at lightweights? very difficult…I would see Whitaker slightly favored cause his southpaw stance…Opposite i don’t think the southpaw stance would be enough for a prime Pacquiao against Mayweather cause his idiosyncrasy to counterpunchers…

  39. Mike Schmidt 12:57pm, 09/25/2013

    Robbed!!! That’s what I think it was. I gotta say one other thing. At lightweight—Carlos Ortiz was a very very very solid technical fighter—he would have given Floyd a very tough night at that weight—prime to prime.

  40. Mike Schmidt 12:54pm, 09/25/2013

    Tux, and I am just asking, because I really am undecided in truth how this would play out, but what about Floyd vs Sweet Pea in his prime. How do you see that. People can talk about Chavez Sr. all they want but that Sports Illustrated Cover Page, “Robbery,” on his fight with Sweet Pea says all the sezzzing that needs to be said on that!!!

  41. Clarence George 12:51pm, 09/25/2013

    Silver and Schmidt:  Yes, I was indeed referring to the line from “Patton”—“Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!”

    Hmmm, Silver and Schmidt…I’m reminded of a scene from The Three Stooges’ “A Pain in the Pullman.”  Bear in mind that the speaker has an unmistakable Yiddish accent:  “This is Goldstein, Goldberg, Goldblatt, and O’Brien, booking agents. O’Brien speaking.”  For your viewing pleasure:

    Also, “Silver and Gold,” the Burl Ives Christmas song.

    It’s amazing how my mind works, isn’t it?

  42. tuxtucis 12:48pm, 09/25/2013

    It’s not serious to think Mayweather is the greatest of all-time…I’m opposite sure that with time he will be considered an all-time great (top 10? no way…top 30? who knows? 50? sure…)...Arguello was taller, more powerful and great bodypuncher, i see him slightly favored over the quicker Mayweather…I see Mayweather favored over Chavez and Sanchez cause they were smaller and had trouble against counterpunchers…

  43. kid vegas 12:29pm, 09/25/2013

    Once again, we have the pro Floyd vs. the anti-Floyd. I am on the side of the pro-Floyd but this is a solid argument that suggests he is not a Greatest of all Time.

  44. Mike Schmidt 12:16pm, 09/25/2013

    Tux I am not dismissing Floyd at all. I think he is a great great fighter—BUT he is not the GOAT, and he is not a top ten pound for pound all time. I do not think Alexis would have been able to beat Floyd—too slow on his feet. Now, I must say if you could fit Salvador Sanchez to a few pounds I think he would have beaten Floyd. In fairness of your argument to look at Floyd as a Jr Lightweight I will go back and look at his record as to who he beat at that weight. I mean, this akin to the post of “who did the 34-0 with 32 KOs Mosley beat at Lightweight—well he sure beat the shit out of them that’s for sure!!! Tux I will go back and look at the smaller weighted Floyds stuff—all in fun as we could argue this until ever—we can say this about Floyd—he certainly has all of us boxing fans talking away. That is good Sir.

  45. tuxtucis 12:10pm, 09/25/2013

    all boxers you said (Whitaker excluded) were jr.welterweight (Benitez, Perkins, Pryor), or welterweight (Hearns, Leonard, Cokes, Napoles, Harris), while Mayweather started (and probably peaked) as jr.lightweight…I’ve no troubles to see most of them win against Mayweather (some even easily), although not all of them (Perkins, Cokes and maybe Benitez)...To see Mayweather lose against Hearns at 147 or 154 is natural like to see Hearns loose against Foster at 175 (although he won against respectable Hill…)...If you want to dismiss Mayweather, you have to say me that he would have lost against Elorde, Arguello, Chavez, Nelson at 134…If you want to know, I think, of the four mentioned, only the Nicaraguan would be favored vs. Mayweather at that weight…

  46. Mike Schmidt 12:07pm, 09/25/2013

    Why thank you Bruce Silver. You know it just hit me that this “magnificent bastard” would be one hell of a ring moniker. It has a ring to it!!! You know way back when, in the 1970’s, and this is for yeOldeboxing.comers one and all, we had a guy up here in Canada who was simply known as “Him.” Introducing, in the red corner…..HIM.” And the ring announcing was fabulous—...“Him lands a right and Him follows with a left hook. Him is looking fatigued….” In the red corner, from Cut ‘N’ Shoot Texas, MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!!

  47. tuxtucis 12:07pm, 09/25/2013

    @Mike Schmidt: all boxers you said (Whitaker excluded) were jr.welterweight (Benitez, Perkins, Pryor), or welterweight (Hearns, Leonard, Cokes, Napoles, Harris), while Mayweather started (and probably peaked) as jr.lightweight…I’ve no troubles to see most of them win against Mayweather (some even easily), although not all of them (Perkins, Cokes and maybe Benitez)...To see Mayweather loose against Hearns at 147 or 154 is natural like to see Hearns loose against Foster at 175 (although he won against respectable Hill…)...If you want to dismiss Mayweather, you have to say me that he would have lost against Elorde, Arguello, Chavez, Nelson at 134…If you want to know, I think, of the four mentioned,  only the Nicaraguan would be favored vs. Mayweather at that weight…

  48. FrankinDallas 12:05pm, 09/25/2013

    Those who forget the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeat them…I get that…but when Silver calls
    Alvarez “a crude mechanical club fighter who 50 years ago would have been lucky to secure an eight-round semi-final at the old Madison Square Garden” then he loses all credibility with me. I’ve read his stuff here and sorry but I don’t hold the pre-50’s boxers in such a spotlight as he does.

  49. Mike Silver 11:59am, 09/25/2013

    Schmidt, you magnificent bastard, you read my book!

  50. Mike Schmidt 11:59am, 09/25/2013

    Franklin, I can move up my article on Felix Verdejo—he’s 19 and fights like a lightweight Trinidad—I was going to call it “I Got a Fast Car” as he has been fighting, old school—ah shit I should not use that expression, darn near every month this year. I gotta tell ya though, I think it is very very very important that we let the young bucks learn their history a little more before they start Crowning the next Andre Berto type of the day as the best thing to come along just ever. Otherwise we are left to TV network and uninformed to hype stuff that just maybe is not that clear.

  51. FrankinDallas 11:49am, 09/25/2013

    Why don’t you guys change the name of this site to and have done with it. And I’m 62 years old ffs.

  52. Mike Schmidt 11:32am, 09/25/2013

    I am going to say, again, for anyone that has not read the book by the author of this article, Mike Silver, if you are a boxing fan, or boxing person interested in the business of boxing than you should very much get Mr Silver’s book to read. If you are a fan, as well, you will enjoy the questions and conversations that may arise from a read of this book : THE ARC OF BOXING.  I do not know Mr Silver, have never met Mr Silver and my only contact with Mr. Silver is thru comments sections of The book holds as much truth and insight now as when it came out a few years ago and has a number of high profile people that add their thoughts to the book—superb. Adios for now—WHERE ARE ALL THESE POSTERS THAT ARE GOING TO TELL ME FLOYD KICKS THE SHIT OUT OF TOMMY HEARNS AND RAY LEONARD, PRYOR .....I STILL HAVE NOT HEARD FROM YOU. AND PS WEBMASTER—LOVE THE VIDEOS OF SMOOTH AS BUTTER—SOMETIMES, UNTIL YOU GO BACK AND WATCH THESE GUYS IN THEIR PRIME, YOU FORGET JUST HAVE SUPERB THEY WERE. THEY MAKE HARD THINGS LOOK EASY AND SO MANY THINGS, DONE SO SUBTLE BY YEARS OF IN THE RING FIGHTING, LOOK SO EFFORTLESS.

  53. Mike Schmidt 11:22am, 09/25/2013

    Ola Sr. Cuevas. Now there is an idea clean and concise. Good stuff

  54. javier cuevas 10:35am, 09/25/2013

    one thing we could do to request that fight is cancel your subscription to Showtime. the executives wouldnt like that one bit.

  55. Mike Schmidt 10:26am, 09/25/2013

    If Floyd beat GGG I would say he is a pound for pound top 10, bottom end, all time, not a GOAT, that belongs to Ray Robinson and Floyd still falls in line behind a host of others. If he were to lose, as he would, by knockout, then I would say, “oh well, that is boxing.”

  56. Mike Schmidt 10:22am, 09/25/2013

    “Magnificent Bastard” hee hee I like that—sounds like a George C. Scott line from Patton—I mean I have been called a bastard but a magnificent one now that is special. Just this morning during a Creditor meeting for a client Mr Lender called me a cocksucker (sorry fearless Editor)—(that was an “off the record cocksucker by the way) when I asked him what his persuasion was he responded “Who the fuck cares, what’s with you, why are you asking.” Well, I responded that I was just trying to figure out if he was giving me a compliment or not. Did not go over to well. BACK TO THE BUSINESS AT HAND—TUX WOULD YOU GO SO FAR TO AGREE WITH ME THAT AT 147 TOMMY HEARNS AND RAY LEONARD WOULD HAVE KICKED THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF FLOYD- WOULD YOU AT LEAST GO SO FAR TO AGREE THAT AN IN THEIR PRIME NAPOLES, PRYOR, AND BENITEZ WOULD HAVE BEEN A FULL FULL PLATE FOR FLOYD TO HANDLE—WOULD YOU GO SO FAR TO AGREE THAT CURTIS COKES, EDDIE PERKINS, GYPSY JOE HARRIS….AH HELL FORGET ABOUT IT—WHAT ABOUT TOMMY AND RAY LEONARD—what about Sweet Pea. Do you see Floyd beating Sweet Pea in a game of cat and mouse boxing, because I gotta tell you I don’t.

  57. tuxtucis 10:16am, 09/25/2013

    About Mayweather fighting Golovkin, if that would happen:
    -if Mayweather win, someone would say that Golovkin is a very limited fighter with no experience and the only gift of punch tested with bums…
    -if Golovkin wins, someone would tell Mayweather is an overrated fighter not at the height of the great of the past (not considering he would be a 37 former jr.lightweight who fight a natural middleweight)...

  58. tuxtucis 10:12am, 09/25/2013

    Pacquiao never dealt with a good counterpuncher as JMMarquez is, how can someone think that, even at his best, he would have beaten the great counterpuncher Mayweather is? The only doubt maybe consists in that capacity of Mayweather to deal with southpaws; but if he has no that kind of allergy, no way…When De La Hoya fought Mayweather, he was past prime, but anyway viable…The Mayweather victory against him was not lopsided, but clear; the split decision was a real shame…About Shane Mosley being 34(32)-0-0 at lightweights, whoever did he beat? The best names were Holiday, Molina and Leija, good but not great fighters…

  59. Clarence George 09:44am, 09/25/2013

    Mike Silver:  You should have phrased it thus, “Schmidt, you magnificent bastard, you read my book!”

  60. Mike Silver 08:56am, 09/25/2013

    Hi guys—Mike Bruce Casey Mike here (yes, it’s true Casey and I have never been seen together)—thanks for the great feedback. Clarence, I think a lot of questions will be answered about Pac in the Rios fight. Sometimes an old guy can reach back and have one last great effort left in him—ala Jersey Joe vs. Marciano. If Manny really looks bad then it’s a no go.
    Mike Schmidt—no wonder you are so knowledgeable…you read my book!

  61. Duckhater 08:40am, 09/25/2013

    Let us be one on shouting ” bring on Money vs Pacman ”  than criticizing them both…

  62. Mike Schmidt 07:39am, 09/25/2013

    WBA Champ at 147 Adrien Boner. Interim, Keith Thurman. Now, Mr. Broner has been on the cover of Ring Mag as the second coming, he is headlining at MGM on Showtime in December- so why not Broner. As for Thurman, well, Mr. Thurman, he “brings it.” Besides, both guys are “champs” at 147 so lets have Floyd at them—AND, if anybody buys this complete horseshit that Floyd and Boner will not fight because they are “friends” well stay up late and wait for the tooth fairy. For a bunch of million greenbacks the friend thing will go by by in a hurry. Besides, since when did friends not scrap. Hell Ali and Ellis went at it—I think Angelo ended up working Jimmy’s corner.

  63. jeff 07:32am, 09/25/2013

    Garcia is good fighter i suppose, but hes too stationary for floyd. floyd runs and slips away to easy for danny g. If floyd tried to stay and bang with danny g , danny i think may have the better chin, even tho floyd may have the better hand speed, but we know floyd isnt going to go there with danny g, hell be floyd and run and etc canalo showed something when he got tired of chasing floyd , he once stopped in the middle of the ring motioned floyd to come to him, other fighters who can punch all night that has knockout power need to challenge floyd that was every minute of every round if that bs chasing, call it cutting the ring off, but to much of it is running, not fighting, to bad there isnt a point system for to much running. Any how Manny has a better chance then danny g even right now,, i dont count Manny out yet , were not talking an ali foreman 2 here lol

  64. Clarence George 06:19am, 09/25/2013

    I suspected as much, Bruce, er, Mike.

    I recently read somewhere (not here, of course) that Pacquiao is limited.  Limited to what, excellence?  A younger and less war-torn Pacman would have beaten Mayweather.  I very much doubt he could so today; in fact, he should seriously consider retiring.  He has nothing left to prove, plenty of money, and politics looms.  Besides, Mayweather-Pacquiao 2014 wouldn’t be a great fight and would add little to Floyd’s legacy, despite the hysterical and wholly unwarranted “told ya!” of his fans.  If Manny unexpectedly won, why, that would be a horse of a different kettle of fish.

  65. Mike Schmidt 06:18am, 09/25/2013

    Bruce Casey one of the classic’s of The Last Waltzeroo of Leonard vs Duran 3 was (I think it was between round 8 and 9) Leonard repeating his corner’s comments in regard to crowd reaction—“To hell with the crowd” was Leonard’s comment and that about said it all in terms of excitement on that one.

  66. jeff 06:12am, 09/25/2013

    I dont think manny is over the hill yet fellad, marquez i can say maybe you cant , was using ed no doubt in my mind , he was bringing a sledge hammer when he beat manny, and not a regular punching power he had without ed, my opinion. We all know bradley got a free one ,shame on the judges ?? manny wad poppen him in the head all night etc, Bradley even lost against that russian guy, that russian guy was knocking bradleys head practically off, bradley got a few butterfly punches in big deal big deal, bradley won cause he was able to wobble his way through the beating which is bs judging also. All i can say is if he doesnt fight Manny now, he’ll be a coward in my eyes. Also bringing

  67. Mike Casey 05:56am, 09/25/2013

    The shame is, Mike, a Floyd-Manny fight now could be about as much of a snooze as that last sad waltz between Leonard and Duran. I followed Roberto all the way through his great career as you did. But how I wish he’d hung ‘em up after the thrilling win against Barkley. That would have been the perfect finish. But how do you tell Duran not to fight anymore? Manny might be similarly hooked.

  68. jeff 05:49am, 09/25/2013

    Manny is twice the fighter than canalo , he hits in all kinds of angles and is constantly active, floyd would have to keep running, all night and manny would be there on him, floyd wouldnt fight manny out cause manny is an awkward skill full fighter, i seen floyd breath hard a few times with fighting canalo ,floyd knows how to fake it when hes little tired or hurt, and he likes to play the smiling game makes the judges think hes having a good time even if it isnt so easy, but any how let them both be checked for enhancement drugs day of the fight and after the fight have the results of the blood test, disqualify the user if there blood was dirty? marquez was using i have no doubt when he beat manny, so he got away with it, hell he didnt hardly flinch with some of the shots manny hit him with come on now ?? Mayweather will always have that eating at his mind if he dont fight manny , that most of the public believes he chickened out ?? he has more money than a small country what more does he want ?? A PERFECT RECORD ??

  69. Mike Schmidt 05:47am, 09/25/2013

    Well Mr. Casey this brings new meaning to my comic book hero The Silver Surfer!!! I knew you sly old dogs were up to something!!!! Cheekay I agree totally other than do not see Floyd even remotely stopping the Pacman anytime then, now, or later but we probably, in one form or fashion as to vintage of these guys, are not going to find out and that will be a shame to both guys legacy down the road.                                         

    PS I went back and watched Manny’s fight, no sound, with Bradley and last fight with Marquez. He is not the same fighter, speed, activity etc that he was a few years ago—not even close.

  70. Mike Casey 05:31am, 09/25/2013

    Ah, the great Bruce sketch, Clarence! A classic never to be forgotten. You might as well know at this point - Schmidty, Silver and myself are the same person. It’s part of a cunning plan to inflate our subscriber numbers.

  71. David Exum 04:36am, 09/25/2013

    I have been saying the same thing for some time now. Thank you for validating the way I and a lot of real boxing fans feel. Keep your money in your pocket boxing fans. We need to demand that Floyd fight Manny and nobody else.

  72. Cheekay Brandon 04:02am, 09/25/2013

    a) Great analysis, thank you for that.

    b) I think the fight should and will happen. Mayweather’s financial success has shifted the negotiating balance enough that its clear who the breadwinner is, which makes it easier to sign. 

    c) The outcome in 2014 will be the same as it would have been in 2005, or 2009, or 2011: Pacquiao scoring in rounds 1 and 2, before walking into Mayweather right hands for the next 10 rounds, befuddled and embarrassed and possibly even being put to sleep.  The only difference now is that Mayweather gets less legacy credit for the victory. 



  73. Mike Schmidt 03:59am, 09/25/2013


  74. Mike Schmidt 03:53am, 09/25/2013

    Bruce Schmidt back in here- Floyd is a great fighter—always in shape, rare to be hit or hurt, undefeated—but GOAT, no, pound for pound, no. I keep asking—who out there really sees Floyd beating Tommy Hearns or Leonard at 147. Okay, I take the other bait—gee Floyd actually was a natural lightweight—okay—who out there really sees Floyd beating a prime Pryor, or for that matter Mosley 34-0 with 32 ko’s at that weight—who sees him beating a younger prime Oscar—hell he barely beat an old depleted Oscar by Split Decision…. and NO I AM NOT A FLOYD HATER—I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE HIS GREATNESS BUT LETS NOT GET CARRIED AWAY HERE BY SOME MEDIA TYPES THAT WOULD NOT EVEN KNOW, CORRECTION, DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO JAKE LAMOTTA IS

  75. Mike Schmidt 03:48am, 09/25/2013

    Bruce Schmidt checking in. “On Experts”—Frank the Bear had it—Alvarez to slow of foot, not enough skills—but on top of that—trying to stay outside and box the guy!!! No confidence in his conditioning to go hard at Floyd from the get go—very disappointing performance—8 out of 10 Mexican TV sets tuned in—wondering what they think now. Move on up and fight GGG Floyd. Leonard, Duran (who started at Feather), Hearns, Spinks, Robinson, Arguello all stepped out of comfort level to take up the challenge. Floyd paid the fine on weight to get advantage on Marquez so fighting Golovkin at 157 perhaps catch is no big deal—ask GGG if he would take that fight YES YES AND MORE YES.

  76. Clarence George 03:21am, 09/25/2013

    A characteristically excellent analysis, Mike Silver.

    I can’t think of any fight Mayweather makes from this point forward that would do anything to enhance his legacy (except in the superficial sense of racking up another win) or add honor to the sport.  His fans will disagree, but, then, we’re talking about people who think Sugar Ray Robinson is Baby Ruth without the peanuts.

    Who can defeat him, or even offer a worthy challenge?  Garcia?  No.  Khan?  Certainly not.  Martinez?  Too old and injured; the guy has, at most, one or two second-tier fights in him.  And this raises another issue:  Except for his most devoted followers, how many fans will shell out hard-earned money for a repeat performance of Guerrero (which is what Alvarez was)?  These “fights” are boring, the results are predetermined, and they accomplish little other than enrich Mayweather.

    At the risk of incurring your displeasure…I don’t agree that Mayweather-Pacquiao is worth the effort.  It should have happened no later than two years ago, at which point I’m convinced Pacman would have won.  But in 2014?  The Filipino is still a force with which to be reckoned, but not against Mayweather, who’s only minimally diminished from two or three years ago.  If Mayweather wins, which he almost certainly would, it would confirm the ridiculous opinion that he’s the GOAT; at the very least, that he’s an ATG, which is only slightly less sigh-inducing.

    There’s another reason it shouldn’t happen:  The hype will be unbearable (incomparably worse than it was for Alvarez, which was more than bad enough).  I’d have to retreat to a deserted island till it was over…and I don’t have the money for that.  Which reminds me:  Would you please speak to Robert on my behalf?  I’m just not making it on $7,500 an article.   

    Mike Casey:  Excellent post!  I rank Alvarez higher than you do, but am otherwise in complete agreement, especially with the “with it” observation.

    By the way, there are too many Mikes here.  I’m reminded of the Monty Python sketch where all the professors of the Philosophy Department of the University of Wallamaloo were named Bruce.  When a new faculty member, by the name of Michael, is introduced, the others ask if he minds being called Bruce…in order to avoid confusion.

  77. Mike Casey 02:44am, 09/25/2013

    Mike Silver is spot on in his assessment of the limited and carefully nurtured Alvarez. All the way down the line, I have wondered what the fuss was about regarding this guy and I have gone on record with my criticisms. I never saw him giving Mayweather any great problems to solve, and I certainly don’t rate Floyd among the all time elite. He is an outstanding professional of the era who has learned his trade as well as he can against decent but hardly outstanding opposition. Today’s fans are indeed accustomed to average fare and believe that anything slightly above average is exceptional - while a lot of older and more experienced observers blind themselves to the mediocrity to show that they are still cool and ‘with it’.

  78. Darrell 02:08am, 09/25/2013

    Enough!!  There are other fights by other fighters coming up.

  79. tuxtucis 12:46am, 09/25/2013

    Sure that Pacquaio is less over the hill than Martinez?

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